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	<title>Comments on: Not time for celebration yet</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/</link>
	<description>只談老實私見。</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Snowdrops</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52372</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowdrops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52372</guid>
		<description>Sorry for my typos here and there. But I especially want to correct this one: I meant "Bobby Kennedy's OFFsprings" and not "Bobby Kennedy’s onsprings"!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for my typos here and there. But I especially want to correct this one: I meant &#8220;Bobby Kennedy&#8217;s OFFsprings&#8221; and not &#8220;Bobby Kennedy’s onsprings&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Snowdrops</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52371</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowdrops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52371</guid>
		<description>Oh thank you for this piece. I am a Hillary supporter too (and have blogged about her candidacy for quite a bit of time now). I'm grateful on behalf of your Hillary supporting classmate that you sometimes joined in the debates so that it wasn't just two-against-one. 

Obviously by now Hillary has graciously conceded. Personally I have nothing particularly against Obama - indeed, to use his own words, I find him "likeable enough". What really turns me off are his fanatical supporters (the vitriol and Hilllary hate spewed in online blogs by Obamatons is something to behold), and his less-than-clean campaign, despite his own vaunting rhetoric (which I've just blogged about).

Re: the Latino vote, actually they strongly backed Clinton, so if Obama is serious about courting their votes, he would be wise to pick Hillary as a running mate. There just simply isn't a Latino VP candidate charismatic enough on the scene yet to draw general election votes, either on the Repugs or the Democrats' side. And if Obama is indeed trying to pick a Latino VP, then the ticket may potentially be considered by the white majority in the U.S. as simply too much (sad but true). So PK_LSD's suggestion is just way too unrealistic in the current political climate. 

In any case, Obama's problem is not so much with the Latinos per se, it is with WOMEN sick of the sexist campaign tactics and misogynistic media coverage that has pervaded this primary season. That is the reason why they are outraged, and why it is actually wise for Clinton NOT to concede immediately on Tuesday night, when she had just won South Dakota. Her 18 million strong supporters would not have allowed her to concede that night, irrespective of her own feelings or her desire to steal Obama's limelight.

Anyway, just to address a couple of points in PK_LSD's comment: 

PK wrote "如果奧巴馬同意希拉莉當vp，我想早幾天希拉莉便會退選，不用拖到現在。民主黨內的院老，JOHN KERRY早於超級星期二前已ENDORSE 奧巴馬、KENNDY家族亦在未超希拉莉前已ENDORSE，希拉莉係黨內的大老，跟本沒有什麼支持，戈爾亦係非常反CLINTON的一員，今天連卡達都反對麼夢幻奧希配，希拉莉已成歷史。"

John Kerry is not being held in that high a regard within the Democratic party after his failed bid to oust Bush back in 2004. Also, it is untrue to say that the entire Kennedy family has come on the side of Obama. Edward and Caroline Kennedy endorsed Obama; but three of Bobby Kennedy's onsprings endorsed Clinton (and in fact why the whole RFK assassination claim being a veiled suggestion for Obama assassination is a complete lie; Clinton was comparing herself to Bobby, and if she's suggesting anything about assasination - which she didn't - it would have been in reference to herself!). Carter's endorsement came very late, but it's not surprising that he plumbs for Obama (after all, there are many similarities between Carter's and Obama's candidacies, and not many of these similarities bode too well for the general election, see the most recent front page article in the New York Metro magazine). Gore actually hasn't declared his endorsement for anybody. And actually he would have been my Number One choice has he consented to the Draft Gore campaign. 

In any case, the point is not so much for the DLC party elders thought. There is a whole schism between the Dem Party leadership and its rank and file members because of the whole convoluted primary process (Michigan and Florida in particular). Getting endorsement from the Party elders no longer carry the kind of weight with ordinary voters come General Election time as they might have been, especially when millions are still angry with the Dem party's wussy conduct over NOT impeaching Bush and Cheney for their war crimes.

PK wrote: "在此聲明本人非常討厭CLINTON。"

Thank you for the disclosure. But WHY???? Where did your hate stem from? But your being upfront about it as an Obama supporter explains a lot of the vitriol that has been directed in online at Hillary supporters, where there is zero room for rational debates, just a whole hate fest. Given this context, even though I don't approve of it and think it rather silly and counterproductive, I can understand the sentiments of Hillary supporters like Alex's classmate who vowed to vote McCain rather than vote for Obama. If the Obama supporters have shown even a modicum of respect to their Hillary counterparts during the primary season, they won't be fomenting this movement of McCainocrats and new bloc of female swing voters. Disrespectfully telling (or in many cases just plain threatening) Hillary that she has to work flat out to move women votes to Obama, without the Obama camp actually trying to address women's concerns in concrete manners (not just in another pretty speech), would just make more women determined to vote McCain. Telling voters that they have no viable alternative but to vote for you is a sure way of losing people's votes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh thank you for this piece. I am a Hillary supporter too (and have blogged about her candidacy for quite a bit of time now). I&#8217;m grateful on behalf of your Hillary supporting classmate that you sometimes joined in the debates so that it wasn&#8217;t just two-against-one. </p>
<p>Obviously by now Hillary has graciously conceded. Personally I have nothing particularly against Obama - indeed, to use his own words, I find him &#8220;likeable enough&#8221;. What really turns me off are his fanatical supporters (the vitriol and Hilllary hate spewed in online blogs by Obamatons is something to behold), and his less-than-clean campaign, despite his own vaunting rhetoric (which I&#8217;ve just blogged about).</p>
<p>Re: the Latino vote, actually they strongly backed Clinton, so if Obama is serious about courting their votes, he would be wise to pick Hillary as a running mate. There just simply isn&#8217;t a Latino VP candidate charismatic enough on the scene yet to draw general election votes, either on the Repugs or the Democrats&#8217; side. And if Obama is indeed trying to pick a Latino VP, then the ticket may potentially be considered by the white majority in the U.S. as simply too much (sad but true). So PK_LSD&#8217;s suggestion is just way too unrealistic in the current political climate. </p>
<p>In any case, Obama&#8217;s problem is not so much with the Latinos per se, it is with WOMEN sick of the sexist campaign tactics and misogynistic media coverage that has pervaded this primary season. That is the reason why they are outraged, and why it is actually wise for Clinton NOT to concede immediately on Tuesday night, when she had just won South Dakota. Her 18 million strong supporters would not have allowed her to concede that night, irrespective of her own feelings or her desire to steal Obama&#8217;s limelight.</p>
<p>Anyway, just to address a couple of points in PK_LSD&#8217;s comment: </p>
<p>PK wrote &#8220;如果奧巴馬同意希拉莉當vp，我想早幾天希拉莉便會退選，不用拖到現在。民主黨內的院老，JOHN KERRY早於超級星期二前已ENDORSE 奧巴馬、KENNDY家族亦在未超希拉莉前已ENDORSE，希拉莉係黨內的大老，跟本沒有什麼支持，戈爾亦係非常反CLINTON的一員，今天連卡達都反對麼夢幻奧希配，希拉莉已成歷史。&#8221;</p>
<p>John Kerry is not being held in that high a regard within the Democratic party after his failed bid to oust Bush back in 2004. Also, it is untrue to say that the entire Kennedy family has come on the side of Obama. Edward and Caroline Kennedy endorsed Obama; but three of Bobby Kennedy&#8217;s onsprings endorsed Clinton (and in fact why the whole RFK assassination claim being a veiled suggestion for Obama assassination is a complete lie; Clinton was comparing herself to Bobby, and if she&#8217;s suggesting anything about assasination - which she didn&#8217;t - it would have been in reference to herself!). Carter&#8217;s endorsement came very late, but it&#8217;s not surprising that he plumbs for Obama (after all, there are many similarities between Carter&#8217;s and Obama&#8217;s candidacies, and not many of these similarities bode too well for the general election, see the most recent front page article in the New York Metro magazine). Gore actually hasn&#8217;t declared his endorsement for anybody. And actually he would have been my Number One choice has he consented to the Draft Gore campaign. </p>
<p>In any case, the point is not so much for the DLC party elders thought. There is a whole schism between the Dem Party leadership and its rank and file members because of the whole convoluted primary process (Michigan and Florida in particular). Getting endorsement from the Party elders no longer carry the kind of weight with ordinary voters come General Election time as they might have been, especially when millions are still angry with the Dem party&#8217;s wussy conduct over NOT impeaching Bush and Cheney for their war crimes.</p>
<p>PK wrote: &#8220;在此聲明本人非常討厭CLINTON。&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for the disclosure. But WHY???? Where did your hate stem from? But your being upfront about it as an Obama supporter explains a lot of the vitriol that has been directed in online at Hillary supporters, where there is zero room for rational debates, just a whole hate fest. Given this context, even though I don&#8217;t approve of it and think it rather silly and counterproductive, I can understand the sentiments of Hillary supporters like Alex&#8217;s classmate who vowed to vote McCain rather than vote for Obama. If the Obama supporters have shown even a modicum of respect to their Hillary counterparts during the primary season, they won&#8217;t be fomenting this movement of McCainocrats and new bloc of female swing voters. Disrespectfully telling (or in many cases just plain threatening) Hillary that she has to work flat out to move women votes to Obama, without the Obama camp actually trying to address women&#8217;s concerns in concrete manners (not just in another pretty speech), would just make more women determined to vote McCain. Telling voters that they have no viable alternative but to vote for you is a sure way of losing people&#8217;s votes.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52269</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 06:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52269</guid>
		<description>冬冬：可能你是鐵杆的民主黨支持者，但是我旁觀我那三名女同學的爭拗時，也是發現那兩名奧巴馬支持者，好像也曾說過不會投票給希拉妮的話．．．

PK_LSD：同意拉丁裔是不容忽視的票源，但是在這半年的初選中，如果沒有記錯的話，拉丁裔也是較傾向希拉妮的。雖然拉丁裔人口在增加是不爭的事實，不過相比起女性票或白人票，如果說是拉丁裔比這兩批人更重要，很像欠了一點說服力。

至於希拉妮是否已成為歷史，這一刻未宜太早下定論。之前半年的選戰，好幾次都以為她死定了，最後還是力挽狂瀾，我會建議看看她在周六的演說中說些甚麼，才再評估一下。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>冬冬：可能你是鐵杆的民主黨支持者，但是我旁觀我那三名女同學的爭拗時，也是發現那兩名奧巴馬支持者，好像也曾說過不會投票給希拉妮的話．．．</p>
<p>PK_LSD：同意拉丁裔是不容忽視的票源，但是在這半年的初選中，如果沒有記錯的話，拉丁裔也是較傾向希拉妮的。雖然拉丁裔人口在增加是不爭的事實，不過相比起女性票或白人票，如果說是拉丁裔比這兩批人更重要，很像欠了一點說服力。</p>
<p>至於希拉妮是否已成為歷史，這一刻未宜太早下定論。之前半年的選戰，好幾次都以為她死定了，最後還是力挽狂瀾，我會建議看看她在周六的演說中說些甚麼，才再評估一下。</p>
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		<title>By: PK_LSD</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52268</link>
		<dc:creator>PK_LSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52268</guid>
		<description>一般香港人睇見奧巴馬黑人的身份，只會著重於白人會不會投他一票的觀點上，其實來緊的美國大選，雙方的著眼點，應該係拉丁裔的選民上，有睇過電視劇白害群英(第六、第七季)，應該會了解在下的觀點。

當年劇集播影時，沈旭輝教授分析過，究竟會有黑人先，還是拉美血統的人，可以當成美國總統，佢當時的分析，認為拉美裔的機會會大一點，因為拉丁美裔的人口不斷上升，這一分析在今天來看，可能會係錯，但帶出了重點，美國總統的選舉，不是黑白人之爭，還有拉丁美州的新移民，這些才可能是決定因數，正如小布殊拿聖經帶的票勝戈爾

這一點香港的傳媒還未見觸及，這是選擇副總統候選人的重點，連前總統卡達都說，奧巴馬搭希拉莉會是錯誤的決定，奧巴馬跟本就唔想搭佢，我反而認為佢搭有拉美血統的新墨西哥州長才是上算，反之麥肯亦可能，找個有拉美血裔的人來當副總統候選人。

如果奧巴馬同意希拉莉當vp，我想早幾天希拉莉便會退選，不用拖到現在。民主黨內的院老，JOHN KERRY早於超級星期二前已ENDORSE 奧巴馬、KENNDY家族亦在未超希拉莉前已ENDORSE，希拉莉係黨內的大老，跟本沒有什麼支持，戈爾亦係非常反CLINTON的一員，今天連卡達都反對麼夢幻奧希配，希拉莉已成歷史。

在此聲明本人非常討厭CLINTON。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>一般香港人睇見奧巴馬黑人的身份，只會著重於白人會不會投他一票的觀點上，其實來緊的美國大選，雙方的著眼點，應該係拉丁裔的選民上，有睇過電視劇白害群英(第六、第七季)，應該會了解在下的觀點。</p>
<p>當年劇集播影時，沈旭輝教授分析過，究竟會有黑人先，還是拉美血統的人，可以當成美國總統，佢當時的分析，認為拉美裔的機會會大一點，因為拉丁美裔的人口不斷上升，這一分析在今天來看，可能會係錯，但帶出了重點，美國總統的選舉，不是黑白人之爭，還有拉丁美州的新移民，這些才可能是決定因數，正如小布殊拿聖經帶的票勝戈爾</p>
<p>這一點香港的傳媒還未見觸及，這是選擇副總統候選人的重點，連前總統卡達都說，奧巴馬搭希拉莉會是錯誤的決定，奧巴馬跟本就唔想搭佢，我反而認為佢搭有拉美血統的新墨西哥州長才是上算，反之麥肯亦可能，找個有拉美血裔的人來當副總統候選人。</p>
<p>如果奧巴馬同意希拉莉當vp，我想早幾天希拉莉便會退選，不用拖到現在。民主黨內的院老，JOHN KERRY早於超級星期二前已ENDORSE 奧巴馬、KENNDY家族亦在未超希拉莉前已ENDORSE，希拉莉係黨內的大老，跟本沒有什麼支持，戈爾亦係非常反CLINTON的一員，今天連卡達都反對麼夢幻奧希配，希拉莉已成歷史。</p>
<p>在此聲明本人非常討厭CLINTON。</p>
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		<title>By: ivy</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52267</link>
		<dc:creator>ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 04:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52267</guid>
		<description>同意樓上。在選前計算甚麼electability，都是觀點與角度的問題（選後講則只是事後孔明）。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>同意樓上。在選前計算甚麼electability，都是觀點與角度的問題（選後講則只是事後孔明）。</p>
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		<title>By: 冬冬</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52193</link>
		<dc:creator>冬冬</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52193</guid>
		<description>不過﹐其實我是不大贊同奧希配的。的確﹐有很多人不會選一個黑人做總統﹐但其實美國也有更多的人非常非常憎恨希拉妮。若說希拉妮能幫奧巴馬拉票的話﹐反過來說希拉妮亦會令奧巴馬失去很多的票數。兩種說法都有根據﹐所以真的很難說。。。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>不過﹐其實我是不大贊同奧希配的。的確﹐有很多人不會選一個黑人做總統﹐但其實美國也有更多的人非常非常憎恨希拉妮。若說希拉妮能幫奧巴馬拉票的話﹐反過來說希拉妮亦會令奧巴馬失去很多的票數。兩種說法都有根據﹐所以真的很難說。。。</p>
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		<title>By: 冬冬</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52191</link>
		<dc:creator>冬冬</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52191</guid>
		<description>我覺得那個說「如果奧巴馬贏了的話，我寧願將票投給麥凱恩也不給奧巴馬！」的人﹐根本不是真正的民主黨支持者。對我來說﹐這樣的說法簡直可以說是十分愚蠢。

麥凱恩跟奧巴馬的政策實在差天共地﹐若大家都因只對人不對事而將未來的8年交給一個和布殊有一樣戰爭和經濟政策的人﹐就實在太令人失望了。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>我覺得那個說「如果奧巴馬贏了的話，我寧願將票投給麥凱恩也不給奧巴馬！」的人﹐根本不是真正的民主黨支持者。對我來說﹐這樣的說法簡直可以說是十分愚蠢。</p>
<p>麥凱恩跟奧巴馬的政策實在差天共地﹐若大家都因只對人不對事而將未來的8年交給一個和布殊有一樣戰爭和經濟政策的人﹐就實在太令人失望了。</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52186</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52186</guid>
		<description>哎，肯定是我潛意識作祟，心底裡還是想希拉妮勝出！</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>哎，肯定是我潛意識作祟，心底裡還是想希拉妮勝出！</p>
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		<title>By: orangutan</title>
		<link>http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52172</link>
		<dc:creator>orangutan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 06:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hoiking.org/2008/06/04/1088/#comment-52172</guid>
		<description>Obama-Clinton，應該是奧希（其實更應是奧克）配，不是希奧配！;)

我是比較支持希拉妮的，但大局已定，只怪她去年太掉以輕心。為了安撫民心，我想奧巴馬一定會找個辦法安置她的。就算希拉妮當副總統可能爭權，也只能＂chalk it up to necessary evil＂了。</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama-Clinton，應該是奧希（其實更應是奧克）配，不是希奧配！;)</p>
<p>我是比較支持希拉妮的，但大局已定，只怪她去年太掉以輕心。為了安撫民心，我想奧巴馬一定會找個辦法安置她的。就算希拉妮當副總統可能爭權，也只能＂chalk it up to necessary evil＂了。</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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